“We can set no limits to the agency of the Redeemer: to redeem, te rescue, to discipline, in his work, and so will he continue to operate after this life. All men are his … for either the Lord does not care for all men … or he does care for all. For he is saviour; not of some and of others not … and how is he saviour and Lord, if not the saviour and Lord of all? For all things are arranged with a view to the salvation of the universe by the Lord of the universe both generally and specifically” – CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA
“In the end and consummation of the universe all are to be restored into their original harmonious state, and we all shall be made one body and be united once more into a perfect man and the prayer of our saviour shall be fulfilled that all may be one.” – ST. JEROME 331-420
“For it is evident that God will in truth be all and in all when there shall be no evil in existence, when every created being is at harmony with itself and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; when every creature shall have been made one body” GREGORY OF NYSSA. 335-390
“But our belief is, that the Word shall prevail over the entire rational creation, and change every soul into his own perfection…for although in the diseases and wounds of the body, there are some which no medical skill can cure, yet we hold that in the mind there is no evil so strong that it may not be overcome by the Supreme Word and God. For stronger than all the evils in the soul is the Word, and the healing power that dwells in Him, and the healing He applies, according to the will of God to every man. The consummation of all things is the destruction of evil…to quote Zephaniah: ‘My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kings, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger, for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent’…consider carefully the promise, that all shall call upon the name of the Lord, and serve Him with one consent; also that all contemptuous reproach shall be taken away, and there shall be no longer any injustice, or vain speech, or a deceitful tongue” ORIGEN 185-254
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation; because by Him everything was created, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together. He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything. For God was pleased [to have] all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross — whether things on earth or things in heaven.” – PAUL THE APOSTLE
…And now for a bit more modern quote:
While too liberal and modern for much of the church, none can deny that William Barclay’s astute commentary on Scripture has often been enlightening and deeply enriching.
Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow, Barclay dedicated his life to “making the best biblical scholarship available to the average reader.”
The result was the Daily Study Bible, a set of commentaries on the New Testament, exploring verse by verse through Barclay’s own translation of the New Testament, listing and examining every possible interpretation known to Barclay and providing all the background information he considered possibly relevant. The 17 volumes of the set were all instant best-sellers and continue to be so to this day.
The Scottish professor was a life-long student. He was not a cleric who spoke or wrote lazily. He did not employ stale, borrowed (or stolen) or warmed-over material. He obviously had a thirst for knowledge.
For more than half his life he was a teacher of Hellenistic Greek. He was perfectly at home with Aristotle, Thucydides, or Herodotus. In his discussions of biblical words he would track the terms from their classical origins, into the environment of the Septuagint era. He was familiar with words in Koine (common) Greek (the first-century Greek). He would explore the New Testament usage of terms, and even compliment the investigation by showing how the early “church fathers” employed various biblical texts. His linguistic studies are models of research methodology. Barclay’s little book, New Testament Words, is a must – especially for ministers.
Barclay wrote many other popular books, mostly in the same accessible but scholarly style. In The Mind of Jesus (1960) he states that his aim was “to make the figure of Jesus more vividly alive, so that we may know him better and love him more.”
He once commented that the teacher who arouses only passion in his student, without pointing out what needs to be done, is a dangerous instructor. That sort of teaching lulls the student into a psychological comfort zone that lends itself to the development of a cancerous apathy that ultimately is deadly. The good teacher, he declared, provides his audience with something to know, to feel, and to do.
Following is an excerpt from his Spiritual Autobiography.
“I am a convinced universalist. I believe that in the end all men will be gathered into the love of God. In the early days Origen was the great name connected with universalism. I would believe with Origen that universalism is no easy thing. Origen believed that after death there were many who would need prolonged instruction, the sternest discipline, even the severest punishment before they were fit for the presence of God. Origen did not eliminate hell; he believed that some people would have to go to heaven via hell. He believed that even at the end of the day there would be some on whom the scars remained. He did not believe in eternal punishment, but he did see the possibility of eternal penalty. And so the choice is whether we accept God’s offer and invitation willingly, or take the long and terrible way round through ages of purification.
Gregory of Nyssa offered three reasons why he believed in universalism. First, he believed in it because of the character of God. “Being good, God entertains pity for fallen man; being wise, he is not ignorant of the means for his recovery.” Second, he believed in it because of the nature of evil. Evil must in the end be moved out of existence, “so that the absolutely non-existent should cease to be at all.” Evil is essentially negative and doomed to non-existence. Third, he believed in it because of the purpose of punishment. The purpose of punishment is always remedial. Its aim is “to get the good separated from the evil and to attract it into the communion of blessedness.” Punishment will hurt, but it is like the fire which separates the alloy from the gold; it is like the surgery which removes the diseased thing; it is like the cautery which burns out that which cannot be removed any other way.
But I want to set down not the arguments of others but the thoughts which have persuaded me personally of universal salvation.
First, there is the fact that there are things in the New Testament which more than justify this belief. Jesus said: “I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself” (John 12:32). Paul writes to the Romans: “God has consigned all men to disobedience that he may have mercy on all” (Rom. 11:32). He writes to the Corinthians: “As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:22); and he looks to the final total triumph when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:28). In the First Letter to Timothy we read of God “who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,” and of Christ Jesus “who gave himself as a ransom for all” (1 Tim 2:4-6). The New Testament itself is not in the least afraid of the word all.
Second, one of the key passages is Matthew 25:46 where it is said that the rejected go away to eternal punishment, and the righteous to eternal life. The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. I think it is true to say that in all Greek secular literature kolasis is never used of anything but remedial punishment. The word for eternal is aionios. It means more than everlasting, for Plato – who may have invented the word – plainly says that a thing may be everlasting and still not be aionios. The simplest way to out it is that aionios cannot be used properly of anyone but God; it is the word uniquely, as Plato saw it, of God. Eternal punishment is then literally that kind of remedial punishment which it befits God to give and which only God can give.
Third, I believe that it is impossible to set limits to the grace of God. I believe that not only in this world, but in any other world there may be, the grace of God is still effective, still operative, still at work. I do not believe that the operation of the grace of God is limited to this world. I believe that the grace of God is as wide as the universe.
Fourth, I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God – and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father – he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family for ever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.“
[Quoted from William Barclay: A Spiritual Autobiography, pg 65-67, William B Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, 1977.]
Related Articles:
Thanks Andre, for the past two weeks I have been reading Origen’s “De Principiis”. (I had not read anything of Origen or Clement before this).
It seems to me that once you discover the truth about the identity of mankind it must lead you on to considering the possibility that “all things are arranged with a view to the salvation of the universe”. In any case, it is only a confused sense of identity that separates any man from God. And I believe that God is capable in His great plan for each person of revealing to each one what needs to be revealed in order for that person to see the truth. I believe that the love of God is irresistible.
Thomas Talbott’s book “The inescapable love of God” has made quite an impact on my thinking in this respect.
This is so different from the traditional way of thinking that it seems to be unthinkable even to the most open-minded of Christians. The idea that it is “too late to change your mind” after this life is so deeply ingrained in our thinking. But consider this : Is it possible that our Father, the Father of all mankind, who is Love and only Love (He does not have a dual nature but everything He does is according to the plan of Love), would not embrace a son who returned to Him, whether in this life or the next? Do we restrict God’s love to this realm only, or impose a cut-off point beyond which His love cannot reach?
There is something in the logic of this traditional way of thinking that doesn’t add up. My brother’s response to me was that God paid so high a price for the salvation of Mankind that anyone who still rejects it deserves to be separated from Him for eternity. Does this mean that God did not know how many people would accept Him in this life, and that His master plan of love was not that successful? Or perhaps God could not predict the success that His plan would have. He was so confident about His Word that He said “So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please and purpose, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.”
Craig,
You must be the first person I chatted to who also read Thomas Talbott’s book “The inescapable love of God”. It was a very timely read for me, as I published the article ‘Irresistable Love’ a few weeks before and got a lot of responces ranging from ecstatic to violantly apposed. The book was such an encouragement – I read it in one night. There are so many illocigal arguments as to why eternal suffering is justified – non of them makes sence if God is love. As a earthly father I can’t imagine any scenario in which I will consciously make one of my children suffer for eternity … how much greater is the love and patience and grace of our heavenly Father. Love always believes the best, hopes, is patient and never… never … never fails.
I know so many ‘Du Toits’ – Are you family of Francois or Leon du Toit? … ultimately we all have the same origin!
Blessings. Andre
Hi Andre.
Thanks for the post.
God is all knowing. Why would he create people because of love if he knew they would be separated from Him for eternity in a burning pool of fire? He would have done them a favour if he didn’t create them at all… Knowing that God is all knowing He obviously knows something most people have missed out on: the success of His salvation.
I am convinced more than ever that all of of Mankind have been saved. It is our joy to declare to them the gospel of their salvation.
Andre,
I have met Francois du Toit a few times and he knows my Dad quite well (from Elyon I think, and because Francois occasionally comes by this way and gives teachings). I stay in Bethal which is close to where you grew up, I believe.
I got to know about Thomas Talbott’s book from the link on this site and I am very glad I did. I think this is an important topic. I have spoken to a few people who are of the opinion that since this is something we will never know for certain, we should instead focus on other more important things and not worry too much about it. But does it not have a significant effect on one’s idea of who God is? I would also think that it weakens the beauty of the gospel. What made the gospel so beautiful to me when I first heard it was that it communicated to me that God took the iniative to work out this great plan of the glorification of man in the most intricate and incalculable detail, and that His plan was successful – He was always in control of each event; He succeeded in reconciling every person to Himself, and at the same time revealed the true identity of every person as His son or daughter. Not only this – He also made Christ “the author and finisher of our faith”, which means that He is responsible for unveiling the mystery of Christ to each person. So if it wasn’t for Him I would never have seen or understood anything of the gospel.
So the beauty of the gospel is really the communication to us of what sort of person God is, and of course of the value God places on man. I think that in Paul’s time there must have been all sorts of conceptions of who God is, but the gospel revealed Him as a Father who cared for us by accomplishing a plan that would benefit us in the most important ways.
Now if we are promoting this gospel wherein God took the iniative to accomplish the plan, and a person’s entry into this plan is by faith (understanding), and God is responsible for opening the person’s eyes to understand because He is the only once who knows how, does it make logical sense to say that because the person never accepted the plan, or was indifferent to it, he should be eternally separated from God?
In a commentary I read the writer made the point that God allowed man to have wrong conceptions of His character all throughout history as part of a greater plan. The gospel announced an overwhelming change in the way we ought to think of Him and Paul in his letters encouraged his hearers to discover God in this new light, as in Ephesians 3.
Matthys … so good to hear from you. I have the photos of our SA holiday scroll through as a background on my Mac. So from time to time your joyful face lights up the room.
Matthys & Craig.
Both of you touched on the very heart of why this message is important – it reveals something about the character of God … and any lesser gospel is ultimately an insult to His character.
You touched on the fact that God is all-knowing. We also know that He is all-powerful and all-love.
I believe that God is love and that He is wise and powerful enough to bring all of creation back to His original purpose – that we may all be one and that He will be all in all.
There are some who believes that God for-ordained that some would be lost forever – such beliefs are an insult to the love of God. They confirm that God is all-powerful and all-knowing – He simply chose to create some for eternal suffering. This is the most hideous concept of God.
There are some who believes that salvation is purely a matter of personal choice … that God is indeed all-loving, but He is not powerful or wise enough to persuade all people. Ultimately they don’t believe that God is love either because somehow there is a limit … a time limit for this love. The moment before death He is still loving and welcoming, but if you have not made a decision by the time you die, He suddenly withdraws His welcome and condemns you to hell. – Not a very loving god either. So this concept of god is a bit more loving than the previous one because he doesn’t predestine you for suffering, but ultimately he is too weak, too dumb or too impatient to save you. This concept of god actually exalt the will of man above god.
I refuse to insult God with such inferior concepts of His character.
iTim2:4 God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. He has what it takes to accomplish His desire!
Your comments are going to bless many – thanks. They are clear … one can sense the meditation and thought that went into this subject.
I am often overwhelmed with the thought of the ultimate extent of the great work of redemption and act of reconciliation that God undertook to rescue the human race. Underestimating this great salvation has always been the biggest sin of the church.
The greatest safeguard we can ever give someone against possible judgment or the devil is not to make them believe that these do not exist, but to believe enough in our message that reveals truth in such a way that every possible excuse we could have to experience distance from God or to continue in any form of sin, guilt, fear or an inferior lifestyle is done away with. In its stead there remains only the wide open arms of Father God longing to embrace the individual and the world into unrestricted friendship.
There is enough ingredient in the positive revelation of Christ in you to rid you of a sin consciousness and its dreadful consequence.
Our message is not to persuade people that there is no hell, but rather to convince them that Christ suffered the horror of it to liberate us from its dread and destiny. The focus and central theme of the Gospel is the revelation of the mystery of man’s inclusion in the death Jesus died and our co-resurrection and joint-position in he father’s right hand. The success of the cross is not measured by possible future statistics as much as it is measured by the present encounter of individuals experiencing the liberating forgiveness of sins and an understanding of their innocence that leads to a tangible intimacy with the living God and spontaneous love for people. God pleads through us to bring people to realize their full inclusion in the Gospel .
Let His love in you reveal Him to your neighbors and the nations. His love is unthreatened and needs no defense!
Col.4:4 This is my prayer request, that I may be able to present this message in the most effective way possible.
4:5 Do not spoil your chance to touch others with the word through a lack of wisdom. Redeem the time by making the most of every opportunity. (Time only finds its relevance in redemption-realities)
4:6 Season your conversation with the revelation of grace. This remains the most attractive and appropriate option to respond in every situation.
It is unfortunate when great truths are reduced to debates. Indeed many of the sites I have visited are occupied with arguments that distracts rather than focus people. For me and I believe for this site the clear focus is the character of God, the value of man, and the fulfillment of His eternal purpose. Paul was obviously gripped by the enormity and success of God’s plan to reconcile everything to Himself … I can’t help myself … I am in awe at the wisdom and skill of Gods love to triumph over all; for eternity to swallow up every contradiction in time. Death will die! Evil is temporal! All nations will remember and turn to the Lord. These are thoughts I cannot ignore. These are truths that adorn the Gospel of Christ. I agree that it is so much more than a debate about the nature of Hell.
That is certainly the heart of God, We are in full agreement on that
Wise words Francois . The message of inclusion in Christ is the wonderful antidote to the subtelty of holding what we consider to be superior beliefs that only serve to seperate and create that “us and them” dynamic with-in the body of Christ. Some say they even follow Christ is always evidence of that elitist spirit and pride that the Lords people are so prone to falling into when they have recieved much light . The light of the truth of our inclusion puts us all in that holy place where no distinctions can be made and unites us in the one-ness of the Spirit and love for God and each other.
Andre said: “It is unfortunate when great truths are reduced to debates.”
So true, I do not even consider it important any more. As if debates would change any thing. It seems that many think if they win the argument something in this world will change.