What was God thinking!?
The Logos
Long, long ago … before time itself, before creation, the ‘Logos’ began to plan.
There were no limits to the knowledge or the ability of the Logos. ‘He’ was (and is) all-knowing, all-powerful and all-present.
The ‘Logos’ was part of a union that found expression in different forms. The Logos was the logic of this Union. We could think of the Logos as the mind of God. There were other parts to this Union also, but they’ll appear later in this story. So with these unlimited abilities, the Logos began to imagine its ultimate achievement. The mind of God conceived a drama that would span across eternity and require a creation of gigantic proportions, yet engineered in the minutest detail. He imagined the whole plot from beginning to end. No detail was left to chance … for there was no chance there was only Him! Neither was there a time-limit for the planning to end and the action to start, for there was no time.
(Much, much later … after creation, when the Logos began to reveal his logic to His creation, He inspired the following writing:
The Eternal Self-existent one formed and brought me [Logos] forth at the beginning of His course, before His acts of old. (He planned and thought before he acted)
I was appointed from everlasting, from the beginning, before ever the earth existed. (The plan and logic was in place before the first action was taken)
When there were no deeps, I was brought forth, when there were no fountains laden with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was brought forth, while as yet He had not made the land or the fields or the first of the dust of the earth.
When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He drew a circle upon the face of the deep and stretched out the firmament over it, when He made firm the skies above, when He established the fountains of the deep, when He gave to the sea its limit and His decree that the waters should not transgress His command, when He appointed the foundations of the earth.
Then I [Logos] was joined to Him as an architect and director of the work; and I was continually His delight, rejoicing before Him always, rejoicing in His inhabited earth and delighting in the sons of men.)1
And also the following:
“I am God, and there is no one else; I am God, and there is none like Me, I declare the end and the result from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure and purpose.”2
From the very core of who He was, this plan was birthed as an expression of His nature a plan to do His pleasure and fulfil His own purpose. This was what God was thinking about: how to make the most of who He was, of what He knew and what He could do. In short how to express Himself fully.
Before His infinite mind, lay infinite possibilities. Within His limitless imagination arose limitless options. But within this Union there was a very specific quality that caused Him to have a specific inclination, a preference. Another part of the Union influenced the Logos – this Union consisted, not only of logic, but also of heart! The closest word we have to describe this quality, is the word ‘love’. Yet this love was not the tainted or twisted type that we so often refer to as love. No, this was the pure, the original motivation that defined the very nature of God. The mind (Logos), together with the heart (later referred to as the Father), chose from all the possibilities, those which would most accurately express the Union. The possibilities and options that were rejected, later became known as ‘evil’. ‘Evil’ is all the possibilities that are not in harmony with the nature and character of God. In the light of what will be said later, this point needs to be made very clear: God is only good; only love there is nothing double minded or contrary in Him.
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, in whom there is no inconsistency or shifting shadow.”3
To understand why He chose some possibilities and rejected others, why some options were preferred and others ignored, we need to understand a bit more about this ‘love’ – His essential nature.
Loves only need is to give. Love cannot find full and complete expression by itself. Love is an expression of abundance; the overflow of joy and satisfaction. Love desires to give love is not focussed on itself, but desires the benefit of others. This posed a problem, because at this stage before creation – there were no ‘others’ … no-one and nothing else to focus on.
From His innermost being arose a thought that would be the centre and purpose of all His other thoughts …
“We will make a being in our own image and our own likeness. We will fully express ourselves toward this being We will love him … we will continually delight ourselves in him. We will design this being with the capacity to receive Our love and the capacity to respond to Our love”
The Paradox
The Logos understood that true love could not be pre-programmed within this being. For this love to be pure, it had to be as free and spontaneous as its origin. For this companionship to be all that God imagined it to be, His companion had to be free to choose or reject this love. A being made in the likeness and image of the Union would have the same creative ability to imagine. The same infinite possibilities that lay before the infinite mind of God, would present themselves to this being … but would he choose the same … would he have the same preferences? What a disaster it would be to produce an equal one that is all-knowing and all-powerful and then discover that this being has different preferences to the one who created him!
The Logos calculated that such a situation would be disastrous and so the option was rejected. Instead another possibility was presented. An environment could be created in which this being could learn to use its powers without eternal disastrous consequences. Some of the qualities that God possessed would be given to this being, but would be limited in this environment. Some qualities would only be placed within this being as seeds potential qualities that would grow and manifest in … time. God thought about ‘time’ a way to limit the potential damage that such a creature could do.
But one thing He would not compromise on, was reproducing His most essential quality in this being. You see, it is not being all-powerful that makes God, God. Neither is it His omnipresence or the fact that He is all-knowing. The most essential quality of God is … love. God is love. This capacity to receive, contain and reflect back this love is the most important ‘likeness’ that this being would possess.
But another difficulty remained. How could a completely free and spontaneous being be guaranteed to make the right choice? The Logos calculated uncountable scenarios and configurations of the environment to see if there was a way to guarantee the right choice. The answer was produced after an exceptionally long period of timelessness. The fact that this being would not be all-knowing, yet be imaginative and free, meant that this being would indeed make choices and have preferences other than those chosen by God! This creature would be responsible for choosing ‘evil’!
For any other logic, this would be an impossible situation – how to plan and purpose every detail of the plot, yet give another creature the freedom to choose what role to play within it. But for the Logos, nothing is impossible.
So this was the paradox presented to the Logos: Of all the possibilities to realise God’s dream of having a love companion, the only options available would result in ‘evil’ being realized! God already rejected all possibilities not in line with his character, but this being would imagine and choose some of these rejected possibilities; this being would choose evil! At this stage God did not created anything yet, He was simply considering all His options. What He realised is that should He create and set this plan in motion, He would indirectly be responsible for ‘Evil’! ‘Evil’ would be a consequence of creation! Yet there was something deeper to God’s Logos (logic) than this. He calculated that within this temporal environment, evil too, would be temporal … but the object of His love, the being created in His likeness and image, would be eternal. He knew how to take ‘evil’ and turn it into a part of a greater purpose: “Don’t you see, you planned evil against me but God used those same plans for my good…”4
Evil would indeed cause terrible suffering, both for His creation and for Himself. He knew the end from the beginning and saw the suffering that He would have to endure Himself for the sake a having this companion named man. Although He would not be directly responsible for choosing evil, His choice to create would give the opportunity for evil to be realised He would be indirectly responsible! And so God took the responsibility – He would be indirectly responsible for creating evil and therefore He also took it upon Himself to ultimately destroy it.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. “5,
“Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy”6
His plan to destroy it, included sacrificing Himself and so we read about a ‘lamb slain before the foundation of the earth’7. Before creation, God understood the consequences of creating – unimaginable suffering, sorrow and death but He also saw beyond it. He saw the end of evil and the realisation of His eternal dream. Evil was indeed an necessary evil, but also a temporary evil. In the end evil and its consequences would be abolished. An so Hosea prophesied:
“Shall I intervene and pull them into life? Shall I snatch them from a certain death? Who is afraid of you, Death? Who cares about your threats, Tomb? In the end I’m abolishing regret, banishing sorrow,”8
Seeing the grand scheme of God’s plan, Paul wrote: “At the same moment and in the same way, we’ll all be changed. In the resurrection scheme of things, this has to happen: everything perishable taken off the shelves and replaced by the imperishable, this mortal replaced by the immortal. Then the saying will come true: Death swallowed by triumphant Life! Who got the last word, oh, Death? Oh, Death, who’s afraid of you now? It was sin that made death so frightening and law-code guilt that gave sin its leverage, its destructive power. But now in a single victorious stroke of Life, all three-sin, guilt, death-are gone, the gift of our Master, Jesus Christ. Thank God! “9
The possibility of evil existing forever, was rejected by God. He was confident that in the end man would choose as He chose. He knew that He could accurately communicate His original plan in such a way that all things He created would once again be reconciled to Himself.
“We look at this Son and see the God who cannot be seen. We look at this Son and see God’s original purpose in everything created. For everything, absolutely everything, above and below, visible and invisible, rank after rank after rank of angels everything got started in him and finds its purpose in him. He was there before any of it came into existence and holds it all together right up to this moment. And when it comes to the church, he organizes and holds it together, like a head does a body. He was supreme in the beginning and leading the resurrection parade he is supreme in the end. From beginning to end he’s there, towering far above everything, everyone. So spacious is he, so roomy, that everything of God finds its proper place in him without crowding. Not only that, but all the broken and dislocated pieces of the universe – people and things, animals and atoms get properly fixed and fit together in vibrant harmonies, all because of his death, his blood that poured down from the cross. You yourselves are a case study of what he does. At one time you all had your backs turned to God, thinking rebellious thoughts of him, giving him trouble every chance you got. But now, by giving himself completely at the Cross, actually dying for you, Christ brought you over to God’s side and put your lives together, whole and holy in his presence. You don’t walk away from a gift like that! You stay grounded and steady in that bond of trust, constantly tuned in to the Message, careful not to be distracted or diverted. There is no other Message – just this one. Every creature under heaven gets this same Message.”10
1 Proverbs 8:22 -
2 Isaiah 46:10
3 James 1:17
4 Gen 50:20
5 Isaiah 45:7
6 Isaiah 54:16
7 Revelation 13 : 8; 5:12
8 Hosea 13:14
9 1 Corinthians 15:52-54
10 Colossians 1:15-23
The universe has always existed without time. Time is a man made thing that tries to plot events on a horizontal axis while everything exists on a vertical axis. The end is simply the realisaton of the beginning and visa versa.
“I am the I am” -God
God is all existance including us, we are surely a realistation of God not bound by space/time.
what if we are in total harmony with God and share his existance. What if we are one with God? we would exist on beyond the destruction of space/time
The Universe relies on equilibrium/harmony that will neverbe disharmonised (every action has a equaln and opposite reaction) and since God is all (the I am that I am) we are all already in perfect equilibrium with god. Perfect equilibrium of energy is called a Quantum (very scientific and mathematical, but bare with me here) and everything that is not in it’s quantum state (i.e. not in harmonised centre but still in a state of opposites such as good or bad; hot or cold etc) will exist in the domain of space/time which can be destroyed and will be destroyed one day as it is a disharmony in a universe that will always return to harmony. Quantum state is a timeless spiritual state taht all matter and time returns to. This quantum state has been referred to as love by wiser men than me. Therefore all is full of love and all else is an illusion.
I love the sentence: “we are surely a realistation of God not bound by space/time”
I thought much about time and eternity, and agree that our definition of time is simply related to how we experience it – there is an experience – I call it fellowship with God – that takes one beyond the one dimensional sequence of events into an eternal realm. It is as if we become partakers of His onmipresence!
l enjoy your thinking … in line with what Paul saw and wrote when he said all things, seen or unseen, will be reconciled (brought into harmony) with God.
During times of fellowship I have had experiences of stepping into a spaceless and timeless existence. Very often a real belief that absolutely anything is possible goes hand in hand with it.
Hello Theo!
Hi Matthys – Your reply reminded me of John G Lake and the way in which he described tapping into the power of God. He was well known for the extraordinary miracles that accompanied him … he even allowed scientific experiments to be done while he laid hands on the sick. While in South Africa, there was a epidemic disease that spread throughout the country, but he was unaffected although he worked with the sick daily. He invited some scientists to bring their microscopes and observe what happened when the bacteria came into contact with his hands …. the bacteria died immediately. He explained that he found a way for the life of God to flow out of his spirit into his body … as simple as that. What a testimony when the life giving force of fellowship with God becomes manifest in our physical bodies!
So beautiful! Enjoy your guys comments tremendously! Its seeing beyond boundaries of human thinking into a beauty so great and so real and so near – it’s where our spirit’s are at home with His.
God’s anointing is abundantly available and flowing NOW. All He’s done, is for NOW, “I am” has such a very PRESENT meaning, He is God of the present, of the now, seeing the beginning and the end in one eternal moment – how amazing that we are part of His great big story – HERE and NOW.
Good to hear from you, Dawie and Michelle.
Our past and future can no longer distract us when we find the value in the present moment. Time can only confirm the truth of His love for us – whatever seems to contradict it will eventually be revealed as false. Paul wrote with such confidence in Rom 8: ” 31-39So, what do you think? With God on our side like this, how can we lose? If God didn’t hesitate to put everything on the line for us, embracing our condition and exposing himself to the worst by sending his own Son, is there anything else he wouldn’t gladly and freely do for us? And who would dare tangle with God by messing with one of God’s chosen? Who would dare even to point a finger? The One who died for us—who was raised to life for us!—is in the presence of God at this very moment sticking up for us. Do you think anyone is going to be able to drive a wedge between us and Christ’s love for us? There is no way! Not trouble, not hard times, not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not bullying threats, not backstabbing, not even the worst sins listed in Scripture:
They kill us in cold blood because they hate you.
We’re sitting ducks; they pick us off one by one.
None of this fazes us because Jesus loves us. I’m absolutely convinced that nothing—nothing living or dead, angelic or demonic, today or tomorrow, high or low, thinkable or unthinkable—absolutely nothing can get between us and God’s love because of the way that Jesus our Master has embraced us.
In Psalm 22 David says a curious thing: All shall remember and return to the Lord. Deutoronomy 32 and Isaiah 51 both say: Look to the Rock that gave you birth. I could not understand this in the light of Paul’s revelation that all men died with Christ in His death, and were given re-birth at His resurrection. The conclusion I have come to (based on my best understanding) is that the death and resurrection of Christ is an eternal (spiritual) event that was made physical in time. In other words, Christ the Seed was slain before the world was made, and in His resurrection in the spiritual realm, mankind was born. What men witnessed in the physical death and resurrection of Christ on earth, was the original birth of mankind, visibly portrayed. Hosea said “Who has heard of such a thing, a nation born in one day?”
Before He died, Christ said to His disciples that the time had come for harvest. The seed that was sown had yielded its fruit. By the knowledge of God in the mirror reflection of Christ as our true and original identity, we realize that our nature is God’s nature. We have always been, in essence and in the deepest sense, God’s offspring. David asked “What is man that God is mindful of Him”. Man is not flesh and blood, the true spiritual identity of man goes back to the Lamb slain before the world was made.
It seems more and more that the problem is one of identity and of forgetting who we are. “My thoughts are not your thoughts… I will send My Word (to communicate my thoughts about who you are)… in place of the thorn tree shall come up the Myrtle. (Because you have realized that your nature is birthed out of God)”
Craig – loved your writing.
I’ve started writing bits and pieces about this and am now trying to pull it together. The first draft of the section I wrote above is really just an introduction (with which I am not completely satisfied yet). But the conclusion of these truths is what you wrote so accurately – it is for people to come to a realization (remembering) of who they truly are, and enjoying the benefit of intimacy with our maker. The thought of eternal truths manifesting in time is awesome – I have come to the same conclusion.
uit Hom en deur Hom en tot Hom is alles – ekke jye en die annere ook. Love it to go to symphonies and watch first violinist come and give the key note and every instrument is tuned in accordingly – still continue to play individual piece and instrument – but its all tuned according to one note – or sound as it where – the one Word that became flesh – he upholds the universe by that sound – yes,thats where we are at home -
Andre, I would be very interested to know how the book progresses. I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about this subject and looking into scriptures to discover more about this, and I am glad to hear that this is exactly what your writing addresses. Your introduction was very thought-provoking. It is awesome to think that “faith” is to see what God sees. When I see what enormous value Paul placed on what he called “wisdom”, it seems that God has a lot more in mind than what we could have imagined. Where religion says, “Try and become more like Christ”, faith says, “You are born of incorruptible seed” and, “Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and true holiness”.
Andre, this is fantastic. Keep going with it – beautiful, water-ey words
Sue
I love this part of your comment in answer to Craig (a great comment by the way).
“it is for people to come to a realization (remembering) of who they truly are, and enjoying the benefit of intimacy with our maker. ”
Our problem is we are addicted to form, our bodies, instead of our true nature (the spirit). Great post which I really enjoyed.
Don and Sue – thanks for the comments. I’m on the Cornwall coast at the moments with limited access to the internet. Have been refining the article thanks to all the good thoughts coming through … will update soon.
Hi Andre ,
Ive been meaning to respond for sometime. The Spirit in us searches “all” things even the deep things of Christ . Im always amazed to think that when Paul spoke to the early church about the unsearchable riches of Christ he almost seems to take for granted that these mostly illiterate saints had the capacity to comprehend the incomprehensible. What the mind has not concieved nor entered the heart of man Paul knew that without effort the saints had the ability to grasp with-out effort . Paul spoke to the saints about things he knew they knew even though they had never been taught it. His starting point was always Christ before creation. That primordial time when God was the all.It is in this place that we get some hints to your question what was God thinking.There are many mysterious plans and purposes going on inside the fellowship of the Godhead .Of which much could be said.However what i think is a much over-looked and central theme on Gods heart for all time and eternity is the unfolding of a divine romance . God has cherished a secret in His heart and and our lives are dynamically caught up in the drama of this divine romance.The essence of all Gods thoughts and essential purpose of our existance is revealed here. God gives us some insight into this mystery by beautiful picture of Adam and Eve.Inside of adam there was a women his counterpart who would put to sleep and taken from his side and be sculpted out of his DNA and very essence of his being. Inside of your Lord there is women she is the most beautiful women in creation as she looks just like her Lover . This women has been hidden inside of Jesus/Christ her lover for all eternity . He is courting this women whilst she is here on this earth but she is not of this earth.History and the consummation of the ages is destined by the marraige of these two lovers . The bride is destined to be the His wife . Nothing surer. In this she rejoices and is being adorned by him for that day.What was God thinking eh!!!!! He is in love my friend.
Hi Roddy – Thanks for that. He is in love! … and so are we. The feeling is mutual. His original thought is as inspired and fresh today as when He first thought it. He knew that His love would awaken in us an equal response … His thoughts toward us would awaken in us thoughts of equal quality and adoration. What a God; what a friend; what a lover.
beautiful stuff Roddy!! we know that the son of God has come and has given us understanding to know Him who is true
and we are in Him who is true! 1John 5:20
Hi
Read some powerful stuff in one of Gene Edwards’ latest books: “The day I was Crucified” as told by Jesus Christ… he’s seeing the same diamond from another view, beautiful, tapped into the heart of God. I’ll post some quotes soon…
Hi Andre,
Re :recent article on the Logos .Some thoughts to share in relation to the love of God . For sometime my prayer life has been reduced to a longing with-in my heart to know and be brought by the the Spirit into the ultimate issues of Gods heart.I have found myself many times saying to the Lord let me see what it was that John saw in you , what Mary Magdelene saw in you , what Paul saw in you that made them love you so much.These yearnings almost intensified to the extent that found myself often begging the Lord in prayer to show me what it is in the Father He sees that causes him to love him so much and asking the Father to show me what it is in his Son that causes Him to love him so much.As i began to make these daring requests i began to wait , watch and listen not knowing that he had put these longings in my spirit.I now know these innate longings are organic and native to every child of God The Holy Spirit has a work to do to find the lost child in us and bring him consciuosly into this intimate union.My holy quest was expressed in my desire to know what they know , see what they see and feel what they feel.There is much i could say about this journey but i just wanted to touch upon an aspect of the love of God that has taken my breath away in its beauty and awe . Much of my communion with the Lord lately has been beholding the zeal and fire of his passion for his beloved spouse . This consuming passion is seen in the cross and has completely altered my negative/distorted perception of the judgement of God . The judgement of God to behold is a vision of sheer beauty as it has behind it the consuming passion of Gods love to remove every hindrance to him bringing his church into an intimate bridal relationship with him.The Lord is releasing into the body of christ in these last days a revelation of her bridal relationship which will characterize her more than anythingelse in this age.The church in various localities around the world will be a testimony to principalities and powers and to this world of a corprate expression of a love affair between bridegroom Jesus christ and his bride.However i see that a new understanding of the judgement of God must be embraced in the hearts of Gods. For many of the Lords people have not seen the zeal of Gods love to own and possess them as his own . I see in the zeal of His love a burning desire to have no rival to it in the secret place of our hearts. There is a hidden work of preparation on inside of us towards this end . The vision that brother Willem had will i believe become the vision that captivates our hearts as his bride is passion of Gods heart and the focus of all his intentions.
Hi, I agree with you pertaining almost everything you say about God and His “thoughts” before the creation of the universe. However, when you add the dilemma of the angels also failing to live in a way the was pleasing to the creator, I believe any thoughts of creation must also take this into the plan God (Logos) had in creating man. Since God new man would fail, He must have also realized why it would be that they would fail; namely the Serpent. And through all the history of man from Adam, the Serpent played a major role in swaying man from making a decision he may not have made without the Accuser’s false information always at play around us. Going back to the topic of “angels” (messengers), they were probably called something else when their period of history existed before the fall, and I believe their civilization also lasted much longer than the civilization of man since Satan (possibly called Lucifer) was highest in authority (High Priest) of God over that civilization. Pride entered into his heart and from there it was all down hill. A war began between those who were still loyal to God and those who disloyal.
In your opinion, did Logos plan the civilization of “angels” from the end to the beginning when He first created them without any thought of man ever being created or did he know the angels would fall and knew man would fall and so His planning took both civilizations into account?
Also, since the “angels” fell, did God also have a plan of salvation for those who did not revolt against him? By the one sin Adam fell and all after him. When Satan (Lucifer?) fell from grace by pride, was his sin also passed on to all other “angels” just as Adams sin was passed onto all man? Did Jesus’ death give salvation to the “angels” and man or was there salvation given to the angels who did not follow in the way of pride at some other time in history before man was created.
As I said, I agree on just about everything you said in your article “What was God Thinking?” but there are so many additional variables we cannot ever hope to comprehend, it is hard to say for sure anything about why God created us except to love us and we in return to worship Him for the reasons you gave.
Theo jr, please share more. Or how can one access more on those thoughts.